A Futile Debate with a God-Botherer…

Introduction

I have long said that I would not debate God botherers or other devoutly religious people. They are far too dishonest to ever be convinced and it would be foolish to expect them to be. That is what faith is about as we discussed in this article.

However, one day I was in a religious Discord server and I decided to see what kind of dishonesty I could uncover. Not for the purposes of convincing my opponent, but to see just what insane nonsense my opponent would throw at me. And how easy it would be to handle his pathetic non-arguments.

There was also a hope that someone on the Discord server might learn a lesson about how futile it is to try to convince these people of anything that contradicts their faith.

What was the thesis of my unworthy opponent? That I cannot know anything without presupposing God. A pathetic position as you will soon see.

Here is that debate, with some added illustrations. I have made some edits to fix some of the more obvious and glaring spelling and grammatical errors. I have left many of the grammatical errors made by my opponent as they are. This makes some of his posts harder to read, however it illustrates how incoherent this persons’ thinking skills apparently are.

This is a fairly long debate, at almost 5000 or so words. Feel free to skim over it or not to read it all. I think you will very quickly get a good feel for just how dishonest “Phil” is. His “arguments” are typical of the devoutly religious trying to defend their nonsense, particularly those of a presuppositional persuasion.

Enjoy. Or perhaps that is the wrong word. Let’s hope you get something from it…

Without any further ado…

The Debate

Phil

All men know that God exists (Rom. 1:18-21). Thus, there are no real atheists. Especially emphasized by Calvinists, particularly those of the Presuppositionalist school of apologetics, such as Cornelius Van Til.

Metaphysician

I hate it when Christians pretend that there are no atheists and that all men know God exists. That is just false. I don’t know that; I know that he does not exist. As do hundreds of thousands of other people.

“All men know that God does not exist. There are no real theists, only delusional men” . Makes as much sense as Romans 1:18-21.

No, they are not even delusional. That should be “there are only con-men”.

You don’t know what we are thinking. Most of you don’t even know what your own damn books say. So, stop telling us what we think.

Phil

By the revelation of God, we know things for certain. You can’t proof me wrong.

But God has never revealed himself, let alone anything else. So much for that premise…

Metaphysician

When did the Flood happen, Phil?

Why, Phil, does Deuteronomy claim that all the people of Canaan were killed? When DNA evidence shows that they left many descendants.

Why does the Bible describe pi to have a value of 3? We know that it does not.

Why does Genesis describe the Moon as a light? It is not. It reflects light.

Phil

So you claim knowledge?

Metaphysician

Answer the questions. When did the Flood happen? Give me a rough estimate. How many thousands of years ago?

You should be very confident in giving me a number, if you have one. Since I allegedly cannot prove you wrong.

Phil

Do you claim certainty for your arguments?

Metaphysician

Answer the question. And yes, I do.

Phil

How do you get knowledge in your worldview?

science
How do we get knowledge? Oh, science is one way. Ever heard of it, Phil? It works better than prayer…

Metaphysician

No. You are answering my questions or we are done here.

You said that I cannot prove you wrong. Answer my questions then. Answer the questions or make claims about something. Let’s see if we can prove you wrong? I’d prefer you answer the damn questions.

Phil

Well, you have to be consistent with your worldview.

Metaphysician

No. We are not talking about that. You will answer the questions or this is done.

Phil

You can’t justify knowledge that’s why you are begging the question.

Metaphysician

I am not begging the question. I am asking you questions. Which you refuse to answer. Why Phil?

Phil

Well, it’s not necessary to go into that, because you can’t justify your knowledge and certainty.

Metaphysician

Because you know I can provide evidence that your answers will be wrong?

We are not talking about that. We are addressing your claims of infallibility.

Phil

Again, you claim knowledge, can you justify that?

Metaphysician

Of course. By pointing to reality and applying reason. But you are going to reject that. And say I must have faith in science and logic etc. That is not going to get us anywhere.

Phil

Are you certain about that?

Metaphysician

Not 100%, but that is most likely the kind of response you will give me.

You might appeal to the fact that God gave us logic. Or something like that. Some kind of alleged fact. That is nonsense, but still.

Phil

How do you know your reason and reality is valid?

Metaphysician

How do I know reality is valid? As opposed to what?

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